Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Hair Is it possible?

  • Is it possible?

    Posted by belassi on December 29, 2019 at 6:26 pm

    Is it possible to make a conditioner with what I have available? EG:
    NO BTMS. NO PQ10.
    I have cetrimonium chloride, the usual fatty alcohols, polyquaternium 7, dimethicone 500cst, water-dispersible silicone (Silsense DW18), dimethicone petrolatum (Polytrap), Lamesoft PO65, Cyclopentasiloxane, hydrolysed keratin and Polyquart H81, which I normally use in shampoos.

    belassi replied 4 years, 2 months ago 5 Members · 12 Replies
  • 12 Replies
  • gunther

    Member
    December 29, 2019 at 8:03 pm

    It’s definitely possible.

    I did some blind tests, and volunteer testers couldn’t find any difference between conditioners made with BTMS-50 vs those made with Cetrimonium chloride + cetyl alcohol.
    In fact, I personally find Cetrimonium chloride a bit better at detangling.

    Polyquaternium-7? 
    You can add it, but Polyquaternium-10 or even Guar HPTC works better.

    Dimethicone 500?
    Is a higher molecular weight silicone better for conditioners, or is it the other way around? I already forgot.

    Water dispersible silicone?
    I thick they’ll just get drained off without being deposited on hair, They just add cost and may lead to emulsion separation problems.

    Dimethicone+petrolatum?
    I don’t think rinse off conditioners can deposit petrolatum on hair. So it just increases cost and may lead to emulsion separation problems.

    Lamesoft PO-65?
    IMO the glucoside may reduce the viscosity and I don’t think the glyceryl oleate will be deposited on hair in a rinse off conditioner.

    Cyclopentasiloxane?
    It will just end up being rinsed off. I don’t think it will deposited on hair as longer molecular weight silicones do. I might be wrong though.

    Hydrolyzed keratin?
    Hard to preserve and doesn’t do much in rinse off products. Better left as a claims ingredient at 0.1-0.01% or so.

    Polyquart H81?
    That would work, and probably replace Polyquaternium-10.

  • gunther

    Member
    December 29, 2019 at 8:08 pm
  • belassi

    Member
    December 29, 2019 at 9:10 pm

    Very interesting, thanks.

  • oldperry

    Member
    December 29, 2019 at 9:38 pm

    VO5 conditioner was pretty much Cetrimonium Chloride, Cetyl alcohol, fragrance and some adjustment agents. Yes, you can make a conditioner with what you’ve got.

  • belassi

    Member
    December 29, 2019 at 10:39 pm

    The cetrimonium chloride I have is just the standard stuff, can anyone give me a starting percentage to try? 

  • oldperry

    Member
    December 29, 2019 at 10:43 pm

    We used 1.5% cetrimonium chloride but I think that was of a 25% solution.

  • belassi

    Member
    December 30, 2019 at 12:32 am

    Thanks

  • markbroussard

    Member
    December 30, 2019 at 1:51 am

    @Belassi:

    2% or so Cetrimonium Chloride is a good place to start

  • belassi

    Member
    December 30, 2019 at 9:47 pm

    I tried 2% before, but I had comments that it wasn’t detangling enough. Would 5% be OK?

  • markbroussard

    Member
    December 31, 2019 at 12:55 am

    Yes, just trial and error the % until you get something your test panel likes.  Make a 5% batch and see how your customers like it.

  • luiscuevasii

    Member
    January 2, 2020 at 3:37 am

    Im ussing 3% ctac and 3% cetyl/stearyl alcohol n 50:50 and works fine in a standard condiciones, i ussed pq7 and 1000cps dimethicone but i didnt notice any difference

  • belassi

    Member
    January 2, 2020 at 4:33 pm

    thanks

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